New investment for cycling

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2 hours ago (7:08 PM)
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Comments:

Terry Vaughan

I have to welcome these plans. They represent progress. But perhaps they focus too much on commuters. They won't make much difference to me personally here in the suburbs where there is next to nothing for bike riders. There is no safe way for me to reach the new cycle tracks. I would like to see more done to close residential streets to through motor traffic and create quiet routes that actually are quiet enough to cycle on. But I understand that TfL does not control local streets, and my backward council has no interest in sustainable transport.

tfluke

I agree. Most of the existing routes, plus those listed above, focus on commuters. If we're to increase the overall number of cyclists, we also need solutions which cater to the likes of shoppers, schoolchildren and leisure cyclists.

otakujr

I agree too, the quietways are a good start but too often they are far from quiet. My daily commute takes me along QW1 and many drivers treat it as an excuse to speed up rather than slow down as it is still used as a rat run in places. Managed access to residential streets with no through passage to eliminate rat running is a must.

Terry Vaughan

Otakujr, not such a good start. I think they are a half-hearted compromise that fails to make cycling objectively or subjectively safe. But without rat-runners a street can be quiet enough even for young children.

Minnacc

Sounds good. I think marking cycle lanes across junctions (where they often disappear) is important too. As would be informing people about where you can cycle, where you can't drive (in cycle lanes) and having some 'cycle only routes' open on weekends, like they do (or used to) in Paris.

tfluke

Yes, I'd even go as far to say junctions are a more important place for good cycle infrastructure than straight sections of road. Newer cycle routes are getting better in this respect, but it definitely still need attention.

Regarding 'cycle only routes', the closure of the Mall on a Sundays appears to have been very successful. It'd be great to expand this scheme elsewhere in central London (Oxford Street on a Saturday perhaps?)

pdjpro

"junctions are a more important place for good cycle infrastructure than straight sections of road" you are completely right. There is strong research-backed evidence that a majority of incidents occur at junctions. A combination of infrastructure, change in driver and cyclist behaviour will contribute to reducing the number of incidents occurring.

Davidbussell

To mark a cycle lane across a junction is cotta only not a good idea. It would encourage cyclist to ride up the near side of motor vehicles. The near side of every motor vehicle especially LGV/PCV has a huge blind spot. The cyclist would be encouraged to put thief lives at risk.

robert l cooper

As usual outer boroughs are ignored .

Urban_Redhead

Kingston is an 'outer' borough.

robert l cooper

Your one of the lucky ones We have cycle lanes in Havering ,we call them Pavements

CraigM1

The plans for the new Kingston projects around Richmond Park are terrible. Full of "shared pavements" which just won't get used. Money would be better spent improving the A3 cycle path from Robin Hood gate to Putney.

john ackers

The general issue with outer boroughs (and Westminster) is that they are less prepared to make the kind of space for cycling trade offs that you need to make a scheme work. The whole point of Boris's mini hollands for outer London boroughs was to address your point and motivate those boroughs, Waltham Forest being the most successful so far. Previously under Ken Livingstone, most cycling money had previously gone to the inner (and generally Labour) councils who submitted the most ambitious schemes.

hatler

With time, and an increasing network, this will spread to the outer boroughs. Whilst there is no visibly established demand, it is easy for outer boroughs to do nothing. (And, of course, whilst they do nothing, no demand is visibly generated.) As the central London initiatives create demand, that demand will grow geographically and in turn the schemes will creep ever outwards.

The mini-Holland schemes are a brave attempt to seed demand generation ahead of the creep. If initial effects from Waltham Forest are sufficiently well publicised and continue to show benefit, then the minds of other outer boroughs will become more receptive to the concept, thereby easing the transition to a more coherent and London-wide network.

But, it takes time to minds and the money has to be found from council budgets which are under enormous pressure already. It's not going to happen overnight.

And, to some extent, a mass implementation now would probably be flawed. Such complex schemes need to be trialled in a number of locations using a number of approaches to see which works best. Once that is established all further implementations can proceed in the slightly more secure knowledge that we're getting sufficiently well thought out provision and the best value for money.

Anonymous

Too much money is being spent on these Lycra cowboys. It's no wonder London is clogged up because of their special lanes. Truck/Bus Drivers always get the blame for any accidents involving them and bikes even when it isn't their fault. The money could be better spent investing in more Traffic Police to educate the cyclists about legal road use.

JHW

Dear Stiffy,

London is clogged up by too much motor traffic filling the air we breathe with toxic fumes. Cycling is the solution not the problem

denis wilson

but all this traffic you say clogges up the streets are all paying road tax whitch is more than cyclists pay but demand everything, get number plates and pay a road tax to pay for all the work you demand plus you could then be reported for dangerous riding, on pavements ect

davel

There is no such thing as "Road Tax", there is "Vehicle Excise Duty", which you pay if your vehicle spews out poisonous fumes which kill people, the amount depending on how much poison it emits.
This goes some way towards paying the NHS's costs for treating all the unfortunate victims who need to breathe in the toxic smog generated by these vehicles.

We all (well, those of us who pay taxes) pay for roads out of general taxation.

Davidbussell

Do not talk rot

EdwardsT

With a stupid comment like that, it's no wonder you decided to remain anonymous!

denis wilson

obviously a lycra cowboy

emishi55

Offensive. Ill-advised. Misinformed. Poor judgement.
Your awareness of the issues surrounding London streets looks to me to be near the zero mark.

Don't you feel embarrassed?

williewonka

+1, sadiq khan thinks londons futures with riding bikes, wait till ikea or Homebase can't get a sofa on the bike then he,ll wake up maybe ...

Urban_Redhead

I will never be 'persuaded' to cycle in London. I do think cyclist need to pay some form of road tax. I don't doubt you'll have a reason or excuse as to why you won't but if they want equality ..,

Barnyvelo

Road tax was abolished in the 1920's. Electric and hybrid cars pay no or little tax. Most London cyclists tend to be car owners and high earners therefore contributing more overall tax than most.

nethack47

If you can define it other than people you dislike I am sure someone will make it payable.

So far the people who ask for this always talk about cyclists paying but never motivating it with anything other than it being unfair.

Anything with an electric engine under 250w and capped at 15 mph is free,unlicensed and does not need insurance to be driven. They aren't fast and they aren't fun but they are a motor vehicle.

Non motorised wheeled objects can usually be used from as early as 2 years old. They comes in so many configurations it's almost impossible to cover them all and most are meant for the pavement. Define something other than those in Lycra (since that describes a lot of pedestrians too) and we'll see if it's even remotely possible.

btw. http://ipayroadtax.com/no-such-thing-as-road-tax/who-pays-road-tax/

peter caton

I think this is a total waste of tax payers money, London is congested enough, most lanes are empty with cyclists weaving all over the road showing no road sense and consequently getting themselves injured and killed, Money would be better spent issuing licenses for proficiency to cycle in the capital and reduce unused lanes causing traffic congestion, motorists are getting a very raw deal and paying too much to enter the city

Barnyvelo

Cycle training is freely available and I agree many would benefit from it. Until we reach a higher threshold of journeys made by bike any barrier put in the way of cycle growth would put to much strain on public transport.

EdwardsT

Well done Barnyvelo on debunking all the usual claptrap we hear whenever cycling is discussed publicly. I just wish people would do a quick Google search to fact check their statements before posting!

Terry Vaughan

EdwardsT, you seem to think they are interested in the facts. Barnyvelo can debunk all he likes, but they will just come back with the same old rubbish. They don't challenge the evidence, they just let it wash over them.

emishi55

@peter caton
"I think this is a total waste of tax payers money, London is congested enough, most lanes are empty with cyclists weaving all over the road showing no road sense and consequently getting themselves injured and killed"

This is Earth calling 'peter caton' - This is Earth calling 'peter caton'....can you hear us 'peter caton' ?

it's no use Sir....there's no sign of any intelligent life form responding to the name of 'peter caton' ....only a jibbering idiot spluttering deranged and offensive nonsense about people riding bikes causing great danger to themselves rather than the 13 million+ drivers motor users given free reign to drive as they like, how they like, when they like with near impunity....
what should I do sir...sounds like a goner...

Try one more time ...the infestation must be nullified...the mass delusion is being fed by a form of paper rash known in the form of a Daily Plague...
the poor fools...look at them...foaming at the mouth...completely oblivious to their surroundings...
it's never been this bad before...
try the amphibian reference...

right you are Sir....
This Earth calling Mr Toad...This Earth calling Mr Toad...can you hear us Mr Toad...

"TOOT TOOT.... F*^$1^* cyclists....out of my way....B4%*5*@9s...TOOT TOOT....get your kids off my road...I've got POWER TOOLS.....brooom broom......"

peter caton

As you don't seem to be able to reply without being rude I won't be bothered to reply but only say I think you must be one of those cyclists causing the problem to other road users, always thinking your right.

oeax

It's good to see these investment figures but will the money ever actually be spent (unlike so much other 'cycle investment') ?
There has been a deeply worrying lack of action from the mayor thus far and the recent disgraceful TfL plans for the killer Lambeth North junction (with no safe space for cyclists) mean we have yet to see any confirmation that Mayor Khan is prepared to stand up to the roads lobby.

yardman

I assume these new cycle routes will just take over existing roadways restricting vehicular traffic to even less road space.While I think cycling is to be encouraged,I think new cycle paths should be created instead of taking what little road space there is for cars.All you will do is produce more stationary cars pumping out exhaunt fumes to poison everybody that's cycling alongside.DrIving in London is now a constant mare.Even in the early hours roads are clogged with traffic.A classie example is the new cycle lane on the Embankment.Vehicular traffic lost a carriageway that was turned into a cycle path. Result, during the morning and evening rush hours the cycle track is well used.The rest of the day it'seems virtually empty but the road is completely gridlocked with cars from early morning until late at night.

emishi55

@yardman
Yes something like the footpaths and te buses and the tubes. Have you noticed?

But yuo know what really 'restricts vehicular traffic' don't you? Yes it's actually more and more vehiclular traffic!

You also seem to be labouring under the impression thaht there are miles and miles of cycle lanes out there! Well guess what! THERE AREN'T!!

If you looked to see how many lanes there are (a mere 00 point... something or other - pitifully small) you would not believe that people could even begin to write such inane tosh such as appears om these posts every tinme slomething about cycling improvements appears.

There are several thousand miles of road system - with virtually every inch available to even vehccle for vertually any journey they want to make.
A few miles of cycle lane begin to appear and BINGO - every whingeing sock puppet pops up from their windscreen-based view of the world to present the most staggering load of bilge imaginable.

But then - we have Trump in teh White House, courtesy of an army of the same troll legions pushing their lies and misinformation on the great and wiling to be misinformed, daily mail viewing populace.
I suppose it chould be no surpris.e

tfluke

Brand new cycle routes independent of existing roads are a great idea, and work really well in places where there's space for that (eg along towpaths and disused train tracks). However, much of central London doesn't have the luxury for that. In an area already crammed with listed buildings, busy shoppers and heavy traffic, there needs to be some compromise somewhere.

tfluke

Brand new cycle routes independent of existing roads are a great idea, and work really well in places where there's space for that (eg along towpaths and disused train tracks). However, much of central London doesn't have the luxury for that. In an area already crammed with listed buildings, busy shoppers and heavy traffic, there needs to be some compromise somewhere.

emishi55

If the problem persists itonbviously means two things:

1) Too many vehicles are still being allowed to enter the capital. Only essentila vehciles should be allowed to do so.

2) Only the more confident and in general, faster cyclists are mainly using the lanes (the atrocious amount of traffic that has been allowed to slurry up the centre of town is a crime). It takes braver and more experienced cyclists to ride the awful roads TO GET TO THE LANES.
So: MORE LANES ARE `NEEDED to enble everyone else to be able to cycle.

Not least those too scared to ride a bike because of all the...errr......cars?

(It's a logic thing - but we'll get there)

williewonka

Only essential transport allowed into London? Please define? Shall I just sell my plumbing van then? When your toilets blocked it may take me a while to get to you on a bicycle !!!

AlanMoore

Actually a plumbing business would be a brilliant match with a cargo ebike. You can travel just as fast on average (average traffic speed around 7-8mph?), park anywhere, no emissions, very low cost.. brilliant.

How much money and grief would it save you if you ditched the van?

Robert Munster

But I do wonder where the bath, toilet, hot water cylinder and radiators would go on a bike!

hatler

"But I do wonder where the bath, toilet, hot water cylinder and radiators would go on a bike!"
And plumbers have all those things in their vans at all times ?

AlanMoore

Not a regular bike - a CARGO bike. Well, a trike. With a great big box. And an electric assist. Perhaps not a bath (so have it delivered to site) but your everyday tools, couple of radiators, a toilet, all could go in the box!

John H

Perhaps someone from Talk London could approach a certain well known, London based, plumbing company with an extensive fleet of vans, for an explanation as to why they do not use cycles instead of vans? There must be a reason. (Pimlico Plumbers - 020 7928 8888)

hatler

It's all about the number plates. :-)

You can't put a witty number plate on a bike.

cannylondon

This large investment should be conditional on all bikes being registered just like all other road users to ensure that all bicyclists adhere to the rules that everyone else does. As a pedestrian and non-driver, I am sick and tired of bicyclists flouting the rules of the road and putting me and other road users in danger.

tfluke

Making one city's cycling investment conditional on nationwide legislation seems a little impractical.
When you say "all other road users" are registered, are you including pedestrians and horse-riders in that?

AlanMoore

..or even all motorists?

John H

Who says a cycle safety training/registration scheme has to be nationwide? It could be London-specific.

hatler

"Who says a cycle safety training/registration scheme has to be nationwide? It could be London-specific."

Good luck with working out the admin and enforcement on that.

I think there are many links on this thread about the established impracticalities and lack of a sufficiently robust cost/benefit ratio to make this worthwhile.

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