Pedestrianisation

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3 days ago (7:18 PM)
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Comments:

AlanMoore

Streets for people not cars would be ace. I'd like to see cycling allowed as well as pedestrians. And I don't think it should be an occasional gimmick - why not make it every Sunday? Do it properly.

maddriver

There are those of us who would like to be able walk without cyclists being around. Cars may pollute the air, but bikes are not necessary. Why shouldn't bikes be banned as well? Then pedestrians can walk completely free of any hazards.

AlanMoore

"Cars may pollute the air, but bikes are not necessary" - so cars are essential transport and bikes are what - just toys?

We need to get past this mindset. I do understand the frustration with a certain quarter of the cycling fraternity (and it is mostly lads) who take liberties. There's a proportion of car drivers with a similar demographic who do the same and they're terrifying! But if we had mums and kids cycling, the elderly, just PEOPLE rather than some special group you're referring to as 'cyclists'.. then it's not the same animal at all. Then it's just people going places using whatever means of transport is most appropriate.

angus_h

Great comment AlanMoore!

And let's look at that 'most appropriate', bearing in mind:
- it's a very crowded city with congested roads
- most of us don't get as much exercise as medics recommend
- air pollution is causing thousands of early deaths
- public spaces work better when people are actively engaged with them, instead of cocooned in boxes

That's not to say every journey can be walked or cycled - or mobility-scooted rather than driven - but if the option is there, ultimately it's selfish not to. For everyone's sake, we all need to use the lightest tool that'll do the job - because our streets, air, public spaces, environment, all have to be shared by millions. Don't drive a 4x4 when a Smart Car will do - other people have to listen to its noise, breathe its fumes, be exposed to its collision hazard. If you can cycle, and thereby save space for someone else on the bus, Tube or road, the streets need to be laid out so that you can feel safe and comfortable doing so.

maddriver

angus_h: you are bringing general everyday traffic questions into the equation. The subject of this discussion is not whether or not bikes are good or bad, but whether traffic(of all kinds, including bikes)should be banned on one day per month.

General Genius

you have to remember the purpose of the proposal though, and that is to improve air quality. therefore it makes no sense to exclude bikes. And mobility scooters probably could not be banned due to the equalities act, so you could not justify allowing a motorised wheelchair or scooter and then banning a human powered bike.

TerryM

Yes you can have different rules for cyclists. For a start it is illegal to ride a cycle on a footpath, unless marked out with a cycle lane, if the wheels are over 18" in diameter. This law covers every vehicle with smaller wheels (all mobility scooters have) such as children cycles. Cyclists who ride on the footway are not only breaking the law but are using anti-social behaviour. A lot of them are arrogant and aggressive when challenged. The electric bikes should actually have to be taxed and insured because the law states any mechanically propelled vehicle on a public road or space needs to be insured and pay road tax (unless exempted such as mobility vehicles). If i can I would like to address the subject of vehicle free zones. These are growing all over the country. i can understand small such areas but the large ones put shoppers at a disadvantage i.e. having to carry heavy shopping to their car. Disabled drivers need to be near the shops and are exempt in most places. Another point that should be borne in mind is that the high street shops need customers to survive. Locally to me our shops are struggling to survive because of Lakeside and Blue Water. They are only 10 and 15miles from my home town and all parking is free and near the centre or even in it.
Terry M LL.B(Hons) - A law degree

maddriver

I still don't see why bikes should be allowed on a traffic free day. I appreciate the benefits of bikes in a general sense on normal traffic days, but when we talk of 'traffic free' this should mean all form of traffic including bikes.

Terry Vaughan

You said yourself this is not about general traffic management. There's no justification for excluding bikes on air quality grounds.

If you just want the luxury of not having to share space with bikes, fair enough. I'd quite like to cycle where there is no pedestrian traffic. It's a hazard to people on bikes.

svend

Indeed!

I think it would be great if it was possible to separate pedestrians and cyclists on the car-free days. For instance, when Regent Street has been closed down in the past it's been completely rammed with people in the road. If a small path (or two) were established for cyclists, it would be possible for both pedestrians and cyclists to enjoy the car-free environment without getting (too much) in each other's way. In less crowded places it would probably be enough to just allow cyclists on the road, and pedestrians on the pavement (if it's a regular thing, the novelty of walking care free in the road might wear off, and it's a dangerous habit anyway).

TerryM

I totally agree. London politicians of all parties are pandering to a small number of cyclists who want to use our roads, which us motorists pay for, free. Before all the so called professional in their gear and helmets start shouting the odds i ask - How many of you are there in London and why should you get preference over the rest of our 8.4 million residents?

Cyclists will never earn money for our capital city by using their bikes. Now if every bike used on a public road had to be registered and paid a form of road tax, they may be morally able to ask for consideration. Before they start to scream again about their rights, most other countries in the world register and tax bikes. By being registered it helps if the bike is stolen. i do not think that the politicians ever thought about the damage they have done to our economy and air pollution by stealing parts of roads built for motor vehicle to provide cycle lanes. In my town we have these things everywhere yet I have yet to see more than one cyclist at any one time using them. A total waste of money which could have been used filling in pot-holes which, of course, are a danger to all road users, especially cyclist. TFL have wasted our money on all sorts of so called calming measures but when it comes to spending some money on a dangerous junction they whine they do not have the money. TFL stop asking councils how they want you to spend our money and ask us instead. you could easily have a referendum on this web-site !!! Terry M

Terry Vaughan

TerryM, your rant is misguided and wrong in just about every single sentence.

Geoffreybh

When I was walking, I was in fear of bicycles ridden by dangerously over-enthusiastic and selfish cyclists. Now I am in a very heavy wheelchair it's less of a problem.
Pedestrians should be safe in pedestrian zones. Look at the word, for goodness's sake!

daramyya

Various forms of plastic temperatures in our homes plus un-authorised burning of waste materials com-pounded by the food-print of war/terrorist explosions are the root course of fear.
The mode of information relating to air pollution requires careful analysis to avoid community feud.
The fuels used in our auto-mobil here are catalysed to sustainable standards in the form of regular "MOT".

daramyya

Please think about the general economic stand-point of the nation(GDP/GNP) air pollution may be dispersed from other global territories negligent on scientific compliance across-the-board of motoring-mobility.

Jamieo

Or everyday!
Some areas, I agree this should be the way.

But I think the mayor should put pressure on building a London transport network that is all electric or Hydro,
Buses are loud and hot and the biggest polluters.

kyankov

We need to go much further than the measures taken in Paris to restrict car use and create pedestrian only zones. Air pollution in London is a major issue and urgent measures need to be taken to improve air quality - it's a question of saving lives. We are being protected from passive smoking, why is the same logic not applied to exhaust fumes? Additional benefit of restricting car usage would be reduced congestion and consequent improvements in public transport.

Anonymous

You live and n a fantasy World ,there are now another 60 plus skyscrapers waiting to be built ,had do you service them without roads ?

Jamieo

We need some form of cars/transport true.
My main lobby is the move to Electric, and getting those damn buses and black cabs to convert to electric or hydro.
We have electric vehicles now.
The biggest polluters in central London by far are Buses and Taxis.

I am afraid London is becoming a victim of its own success.
Too many people in some key places.

General Genius

And apparently if you are an Ecotriicty customer you also get free charging for your electric car! (Because they own the national network. https://www.ecotricity.co.uk/for-the-road/how-to-use-the-electric-highwa...
I switched to them recently because they are 100% renewable but now I am seriously thinking about getting a car having discovered this. (I may also have been tempted by the £25 LUSH voucher! - code is RAF-84A2S)
I gave up my old car because parking was a nightmare. What the spaces to demand ratio is to charging points now.

AlanMoore

Agreed Kyankov, I've said before that ideally I'd like all private car use banned in Zone 1..

jjladd

why should private cars be banned the drivers have the same amount of rights to freedom of movement as any body

AlanMoore

Yes they do! But they don't have a right to bring two tons of private property along with them.

Terry Vaughan

Those drivers can get around the same way others do. They don't have any right at all to poison the air.

Levermonkey

Yes, Motorists do have a right to freedom of movement. Just not a right to drive a motor vehicle on the Public Highway, they use it under licence.

Tritone

I agree – no private cars in zone 1! And perhaps also other areas on Sundays. But allow cycling – would be nice if cyclists could plan bike rides without cars around.

Anonymous

Zone 1 includes St.Thomas' hospital where many Disabled people gofor greatment ,best to engage brain before mouth

Chrissymoo

I totally agree

Chrissymoo

Ban the cyclists they are a massive hazard to drivers and pedestrians

Terry Vaughan

What a foolish thing to say! How many drivers have been hurt by people cycling? Any? Ever?

Len Brown

Perhaps not drivers, but I am aware of pedestrians being badly hurt and in one case killed by cyclists.

E17 Pioneer

Len Brown, correct one lady was very tragically injured by a bike who later passed away. While this was a very sad incident, 2,000 people are year are killed in incidents with cars. Therefore statistically cars are much more dangerous than bikes.

General Genius

Thank you, Sir for your factual intervention into this pit of knee jerky fantasist generalisations.

TerryM

I think you have lost the point. I myself have reported and dealt with over 1000 cycle/car/lorry/other cycle accidents in the 20 years. Virtually all of them were caused by cyclists coming up the nearside at junctions, jumping red traffic lights, making a illegal u turn, riding like a maniac and mowing down people on footways, including the death of a young child. If there was a cycle riding test both oral and cycle riding, maybe, just maybe, many of the accidents involving cyclists would be avoided. My son is a HGV ADR driver which means he drives lorries up to 40 tons carrying very dangerous chemicals and liquids. He isa excellent driver with no points on his licence. He is always complaining about stupid cyclists who come up the nearside when he is indicating he is turning left. Every motorist and cyclist must know that a HGV artic turning left must drive toward the right before making the turn. if you do not know that you should not be on the road. Nobody I know is anti-cyclists but they are their own worst enemy. Behave in a reasonable manner and get off the footway (you notice they are called footways!). If you are frightened to use the road, find another form of transport. Terry M

Terry Vaughan

TerryM, I don't mean to be offensive, but there is no other way to say this. Your comment is completely misguided and wrong. If you really imagine that virtually all cycling accidents are caused by poor cycling, you have no grasp of reality.

The commonest accidents involving bikes happen when a driver overtakes one then turns across it, a driver pulls out of or into a side road across the bike's path, a driver enters or leaves a roundabout where a bike has priority, someone opens a car door in the bike's path, a driver tries to squeeze through a width restriction when a bike is in front, a driver overtakes a bike too closely, or when a pedestrian steps off the kerb without looking. I find your victim blaming offensive.

Andrewhinault

Yep....I have nearly run over a pedestrian on my bike..or did they walk into me...without looking straight into the road while doing something on their phone. He was unhurt, I was just grazed....He apologised for walking into me. But mutual awareness should rule and sadly cyclists are usually the most vulnerable and the ones killed or injured. Just go to A and E.....

TerryM

Were you on the road or footway? If you were on the road, the pedestrian is a idiot for not looking before stepping into the road but Ii suspect you were on the footway which of course you are not allowed to be. If on the footway you should have apologised to the other person and the accident should have informed you about the dangers of footway travel by cyclists. By the way if it was a PI accident or incident they now call it, you must by law report it to police within 24 hours. Did you do that? Oh dear not another offence by a cyclist !!! A graze is a injury. Terry M

maddriver

Would be nice for pedestrians if we could walk off public transport without cyclists harassing us with their aggressive riding habits.

AlanMoore

And it would be nice for cyclists if they could cycle without iPod zombies/drunk people/children/the perpetually confused walking out in front of them without looking.

So I agree - there should be segregated cycle lanes.

TerryM

Alan - Where do you get I have dealt with over 1000 cycle accidents and guess what none of the other patties were drunk, wearing ipod earphones or children running out in the road. The only child pedestrians' involved were on the FOOTWAY and one of them died as a result of dangerous riding by the cyclist, which of course is a serious criminal offence. Terry M

TerryM

Alan - Sorry the post has left out a couple of words it should say Where did you get your information from?

General Genius

Mad driver. Projective identification.
Does what it says on the tin.

marcuseng

I think it would be reasonable to make parts or all of major foot traffic areas car free, or at the very least only allow public transport in those areas (looking at you Oxford circus/Picadilly circus area).

General Genius

It isn't fair to those on the boundaries of an exclusion zone or adjacent roads who just get it twice as bad due to the displacement. pf traffic. If you pick and choose the odd road here and there, people do not stop driving, they just drive on different roads.

cdrocker@gmail.com

I am not in favour of car free days. The life blood of London's economy is its transportation system. We need to work harder at controlling vehicular pollution rather than focussing on car free days. If we want an economy like that of France, with high unemployment and limited growth, then start by restricting transportation.

AlanMoore

In what way do CARS contribute to the London economy? If it's for bulky shopping, get it delivered. But most of the economy is about getting people in/out - for work, leisure. Cars are a terrible way of doing that.

Chrissymoo

Cars pay to use the roads tax, congestion charge what do cyclists pay??????????????

Terry Vaughan

When you paid your vehicle tax you didn't actually buy the roads, whatever you may believe. Pedestrians, bike riders, public transport users and drivers of low emission vehicles all pay taxes that build and maintain the roads. Most people who would like the option of cycling dare not because of incompetent drivers. They can't use the roads they pay for. They are subsidising you.

maddriver

There are those who can see no reason why cycling should be given priority - after all some of us would like to walk without the hazard of cyclists in a traffic free zone. Anyone who wants to come to London can do so on a public transport system.

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